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Poster: clashcity Date: Feb 18, 2009 8:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

"Bottom line: What that ass-wipe did is a slap in the face to the only true HR king there is--Hank Aaron. Aaron did it 'roid free AND in the face of serious death threats from the worst dregs of society...."

"Automatic exclsuion from the Hall. Ditto Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, the whole sorry lot."

None of that is right man.

First of all everyone acts like taking steriods automatically makes you hit HRs.

In actuality you still have to put in the work at the gym, you still have to have the skill and coordination to hit the ball, you still have to actually hit the freaking pitch in the game under myriad conditions. No one ever accounts for that it seems.

Second how can you exclude these guys from the hall. The Hall of Fame is a baseball museum, and while quite hallowed ground it is meant to maintain the history of baseball. That is not to say you put these guys in the hall and not acknowledge the use of steroids. But there records should stand, and these players should be inducted as they were the best players for their time. That time just happens to be the steroid era.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 18, 2009 8:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

All that you said about the HOF would be fine by me IF they were honest about all that info and they are not.

ever been to Cooperstown? I have. It's nice, but nowhere did I see any info on Ty Cobb being a hateful racist who once knifed a black waiter who dared to speak to him before he was spoken to, and nearly killed the man. This being the 1920's the Tigers and MLB covered it up. Any other era and Cobb would've been jailed for 20 years. No mention. (Don't believe me--read the biography "Cobb" and see for yourself.)

Also--if you don't think 'roids give you a TREMENDOUS advantage, you don't understand why they're called 'PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS'....if NOTHING ELSE, they allow the human body to heal faster (abnormally faster) and prolong careers that otherwise would be on the down-slide. You think it's b/c Barry Bonds hit the gym harder in his late 30's and early 40's that THAT became the stretch of his career where most of his HR's occurred? That's insanely stupid. It's b/c he was taking PED's over and over and over.

Ditto McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero....You wanna put thise guys in the HOF? fine by me...but until MLB allows them to go in with giant asterisks next to their names and explanations as to why, forget it. It's pure hypocrisy.

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Poster: clashcity Date: Feb 18, 2009 9:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

I understand the concept of the "performance enhancing" part of PED. But I agree with the other fella who was talking about too much of an emphasis being places on the steriods than all the other factors that likely contributed more to some of these feats.

If you are willing to admit (at least I think you did in an earlier post) that Bonds, and A-Rod were talented enough to do what they did/are doing without the "juice" than how can you argue that Bonds should have been in decline and thus never hit the HRs he hit?

I don't agree with asterisks and all that "we were lied to" mumbo-jumbo. The events happened, roids or no roids. The players don't owe you a can of peanuts. If you want to penalize them then stop paying their salary by showing up at the ballpark. They are doing what anyone else does in their profession - using whatever edge they can get to get ahead, make more money, and be on top.

I don't disagree with you.. in the idyllic world of perfection and everyone a stand-up guy or gal, being honorable, loving thy fellow man, and doing unto other as you'd have done unto you... but that just ain't reality.

I think baseball is one of those things in America we have pinned that romantic notion upon. It is some sort of element of the fabric of our society that is supposed to house all that is right, and honorable, and bunch of other sentiments. And I know and believe that it once was that.

But I also believe that that line in Field of Dreams is more true now than it ever was...

"America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again."

Baseball does mark the time... As in baseball, as in society. A bunch of cheats and liars in the game, a bunch of cheats and liars on Wall Street and in the government...

As you can see I have a hard time deciding which side of the fence I am on with this issue.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 18, 2009 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

Clasch--you said:
"If you are willing to admit (at least I think you did in an earlier post) that Bonds, and A-Rod were talented enough to do what they did/are doing without the "juice" than how can you argue that Bonds should have been in decline and thus never hit the HRs he hit?"

because he's a human being, that's why...and the bat speed of a human being DECREASES as he gets older..it does not INCREASE unless you are doing something significant to your body that reverses the aging effect to make it so. Those are just facts.

My point about their talent levels is that they are both so talented they didn't NEED to take steroids. They're also both so stupid that--had they remained clean--they would have achieved exactly the immortal status their egos strived for by accomplishing amazing things, whether they were "record setting" or not. Does anyone believe Bonds wasn't an automatic first ballot HOFamer before this crap started? Or ARoid? Now they both may have locked themselves out forever--whether you agree with it or not.

Stupid. Selfish. Arrogant. And unnecessary.

And you can't have it both ways--as your own post admits you're trying to...either you let these frauds into the HOF under conditions (explaining that they used banned, illegal substances which gave them unfair physical advantages over whichever of their colleagues didn't) or you keep them out.

I'm not a censorship fan, so I would choose the latter, but since MLB, like most "venerable" institutions, is full of hypocritical windbags who can't admit they ever made a mistake policing their own and won't add such truth-telling asterisks, I opt to have them shunned forever.




This post was modified by grendelschoice on 2009-02-18 20:47:07

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